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The 3 Levels of Conversation

Episode #36

In this episode, Doug and Tim discuss the importance of having people around you with whom you can have the level three conversation.  

Level three conversation can have a real and deep conversation with someone or a group without judgment. It is a kind of conversation where you can take off your mask and just be yourself. You can share your pains and wins in life, and by sharing, you allow the recipient to see and understand who you are.  

Men tend to stick to themselves as lone wolves, but it does NOT have to be that way. It would help if you surrounded yourself with people you can confide in and connect with.  

It is crucial to develop this kind of relationship in your life because it results in such a deeper level of connection.  

We all have the means to do it. You have to step out and allow those conversations to happen. We have to utilize our resourcefulness to connect to the world and be committed to that conversation level.  

In this episode you will learn :

  1. What is a level three conversation?
  2. How to be involved in this level of conversation
  3. What is the importance of a level three conversation?
  4. What are the steps to have a level three conversation with other people


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Episode Transcript

Doug Holt 0:00  

The excuse that we hear so often, and I’m so passionate about this because it pisses me off, is I hear so often from men just gone chasing, “There’s just nobody that I can talk to, or there’s nobody that I can connect with within my area. I sit at my house all alone. But the truth is, the real truth is they are scared to take action and actually put themselves out there. 

Hello, everyone, and welcome to another episode of The Powerful Man show. I am your host, Doug Holt, with my co-host Tim, “The Powerful Man,” Matthew. Tom, what’s going on, brother?

Tim Matthews 0:41  

Yeah, I’m doing very, very well, very well, indeed. How are you?

Doug Holt 0:45  

I’m doing great, man. Always a great time talking to you. I get to talk to you every day. So I have a great day, every day. 

Tim Matthews 0:52  

Ah, thank you. 

Doug Holt 0:54  

Almost every day some days I don’t hear from you, it’s a little sad. But I make it through. Well, Tim, something we talked about off air. And you want to throw this out to our listeners, which I think is a very relevant topic. Oftentimes we talk to these men and what really happens is we hear one of two things, right? One is they don’t have friends, really close friends. I mean, they have high school friends, like people that I call “we used to,” or “remember when friends,” right? Remember when we used to? Remember when we did that?. And they don’t have any new memories with these people. The second thing we hear is, they’ll say something like, “Doug, this is amazing. I wish I could talk to you more often so we can hang out, I just don’t have people like you around where I am. And I don’t have people in my community that think this way”, “I don’t have people in my town that think this way” or, or whatever that may be, which is such crap. But let’s talk about that a little bit. Tim, many of the guys who come out here, many men that we know, don’t have quality friendships. They have the “remember when friends,” as I call them. So let’s talk a little bit about that. And let’s flesh that out during this call.

Tim Matthews 2:08  

Yeah, I love it. Great topic. I actually spoke to a guy today at a clarity call with a guy, and he’s a problem right now is that he’s been promoted in the company there works as a high-level manager, in a multi-chain, if you guys call it multi-chain, basically a national company in the UK. And it has been thrust into a leadership role. It’s performed well within his current role. Now he’s been promoted, and he also has two young children. And his wife keeps saying to him, and you just got to step up, you’ve just got to step up. And he’s like, “What the hell does that mean? Because I have no one to speak to. I can’t speak to my boss at work, because now I don’t really think you’ll understand how I’m feeling right now. Because he’s feeling very overwhelmed”. When I was speaking to him, he could tell he was about to burst. Seriously, and I said it to him as I am, I’m just all the stressor, I’m leading the team, I’m leading all this stuff. And then I come home, and I’ve got my kids to take care of. I have nothing left for my wife. My wife said, when was, in fact, to listen to it on on the podcast, regrets of a father, he said, “I looked at my diary, Tim and No, there’s nothing even schedule them for my kids, my wife has put my son’s birthday into my diary. And not that I forget it, but it’s bad that she even thinks she has to do that. I’ve not organized a date night for my wife in over a year; I’m not surrounded by, I don’t have any friends I used to, but I don’t have any friends anymore”. And I think being surrounded by men that you can really, I call it to level three conversations this. I got introduced to this concept by an amazing woman who actually knows Doug; she’s part of the network for transformational leaders. And she was telling me a very successful woman, a very successful woman in many ways. 

And she’s like you can have three levels of conversation with people. one is like, “how are you doing?”, “how’s the weather?” basically the surface level stuff that you and I find so boring, or you can have level two, and level two is going a little bit deeper they’ll start to tell you more about what’s going on in their life and what the goals are a bit deeper. But level three is where you really connect with other people. And that’s where you and I have these types of conversations all the time. I’m very grateful for that. And that’s where we’re really about what’s going on in our lives. Where we may not be stepping into the line in relationships. We’re going to be struggling in relationships, struggles we may be having in business wins, or we’re having in business is really level three is all about really taking off the mask And really peeling the layers back and really been seen really bearing all. Having other men around you who you’re able to do that with is priceless. Remember, a few years ago, I didn’t have it in my life at all. And, I remember when, about five years ago, when I just used to listen to audiobooks in my car, driving about from place to place. I didn’t know anyone else in personal development. My ex-girlfriend, at the time, hated personal development. So I couldn’t even speak to her about it, I really felt alone, I really did know, whenever I go and hang out with people, and this isn’t against any of my friends, because I love them dearly. They want to talk about football or moan about the partner or moan about the boss sauce and things. And they’re not conversations that I really wanted to get involved in, and they didn’t really light me up. So it was almost like I was suppressing this side of me that really wanted to have this deep, meaningful connection with myself and others. 

And I actually end up leaving leads because it just didn’t feel like there was anything here for me. I want to say anything, really, I mean, anyone, quite honestly, apart from my family, of course, but even still being able to have those level three conversations with my family, I can have them a lot more now. But back then, I was in a very different relationship with my family and my father, particularly a caregiver. I left and ended up going to spend some time in Italy and a lot of time in California, in San Diego, because then a married couple of people were there. And they introduced me to more people. The difference in how I felt from almost being this black sheep and almost learning behind closed doors and secretly and privately harnessing this side of me. I never showed anyone because they didn’t get it, then go in and be surrounded by my kind of people. I’m sure you’ve had those experiences where you’re just around people, and you’re like, “Oh, my God, wow, I just, I feel so a home,” like, Oh, this is just so amazing. And there’s no ego, and there’s no judgment. There’s just pure, honest, real deep connection and conversation. As human beings, we crave it, don’t we? We all crave to belong. It’s just part of our nature. To be able to have that kind of relationship, as men, and a businessman with other men, that is also willing to be that vulnerable and courageous at the same time. It’s priceless. Absolutely priceless. I would say all of the men I speak to on a clarity call; they all lack that and crave it. They have friends, but it’s guys; I’ll go down to the pub and talk about football and moan about the wife. Again, it’s nothing against them. It’s just the conversation, but they’re all craving to have a connection with other men on a much deeper level is the key.

Doug Holt 8:29  

Absolutely key. It’s so interesting that in this day and age, where you hear men say, “Look, I don’t have enough friends, I don’t have people to connect with.” And as you said, maybe it’s level one or even level two conversations. But yeah, we live in a world in the day and age where you can talk to anybody around the world. I mean, look, right now, you’re in Leeds in the UK, and I’m on the east coast of the US right near Kennebunkport, Maine, for now. And so we’re having a conversation, you and I talk every day almost. And you can have these level three conversations with people all over the world. You need to find your tribe, so to speak, or call them out and utilize your resourcefulness coming through there. Right? You’re listening to this podcast right now. Right? You are connecting. Although you and I are, all of us aren’t talking directly, but you’re involved in this conversation with The Powerful Man. And that’s when you think of The Powerful Man as a movement. And that’s what we think about it, Tim and the rest of the men. It’s a movement of men. And it’s a movement of men that are together on a similar mission to better themselves, better their communities, better their families, better their businesses. So it’s out there. You’ve stumbled upon this podcast somehow some way, either doing a search or a friend sharing it with you, or you saw a post, whatever it may be. But you’re here now, and you are in the conversation. 

So I’m going to encourage you and employ you to get out of the victimhood mentality of I can’t find people to talk to, to connect to. Because the truth is that you can have the internet, you have Facebook, Instagram, Reddit, whatever you want to think of. And that’s why The Powerful Man movement is well, unintended, so powerful, right? is you can talk to these people, I mean, I get to talk to, to you, Tim too, to Mel, Arthur, the coaches, as well as all the men in The Brotherhood daily. And that’s a position. Yeah, as one of the coaches running it, I have that advantage. But at the same time, the other men in The Brotherhood that are going through this movement, that high level, they’re also having these conversations. And level three conversation is where they live, that’s where they reside. And you, as a listener, someone listening to this right now, you deserve this. You deserve to be able to have this level of communication. If you’re like me, the way I found myself and you like me, go to a barbecue, for example, right? And maybe you go there, and you’re meeting new people and say, Hey, how’s it going? And the person replies, what do they do? It’s to get a connection. They’ll start complaining, as you mentioned, Tim, you say moaning, we say I say complaining about their work or their kids or about something, their health, who knows, but it’s not a positive conversation. 

And so you find yourself doing or at least I did, if I found myself stopped going, I would stop going to these social events and become more and more recluse, right. And it means if you look at it, from an anthropological standpoint, men tend to go into the cave and be by themselves more often. But it doesn’t have to be that way. You’re able to thrive with a community. And now, more than ever, your community can exist all over the world. It’s like-minded individuals. And if you’re listening to this, again, you are obviously drawn to this community to be a part of this and actually have the ability to reach out. So Tim, I think, the excuse of that we hear so often, and I’m so passionate about this, because it pisses me off, is I hear so often from men just gone, “geez, there’s nobody that I can talk to,” or “there’s nobody that I can connect with, in my area. So I just sit at my house all alone”. And they say this because they’re so excited. After all, they’re having a conversation with you or me or somebody else in the movement. But the truth is, the real truth is they are scared to take action and actually put themselves out there. 

Hey, guys, I want to interrupt this episode because I want to talk to you about something important. We put together a case study on how almost 300 men have taken control of their lives, their 4x in their business revenues, and they’re having more connected intimate sex, all without sacrificing the relationships or their health by using The Activation Method. Now, many of you have contacted us, and they want to know how they’re doing it. We put together this short 11-minute case study just for you. So you can see how these entrepreneurs are achieving this level of success. To get this case study, all you have to do is go over to ThePowerfulMan.com/bonus. Yep, that’s one, one. And you can get the case study right now. All right, it’s only 11 minutes, and it’s going to show you exactly how these men have done it. Alright, let’s get back to the episode.

Tim Matthews 13:34  

Yeah, that was definitely true for me. That was my story for a long time. Well, for a while. Now, there’s a period in my life when I realized that I wanted to be involved in a different type of conversation. And there was no one else around me that I could have that conversation with. And yeah, that’s what I used to tell myself that story that there’s just no one around here. And the truth is the reason was I just wasn’t, and I just wasn’t. I just wasn’t committed; I wasn’t committed to being in that conversation. I liked the idea of it. But I was still afraid and quite insecure back then. So I never really took it seriously. But now, I mean, it’s one of those things where you’ve got to, you’ve got to experience it to be able to tell the difference. It isn’t easy to describe what it does to you both personally and professionally, to be involved, and to have the ability to be involved in conversations that really matter to you and the other person. Knowing that you have people in your corner that you can turn to and confide in without who are not going to judge you who can really share the pain you’re going through or the winds or the problems, whatever it is. No, because to carry that burden on your own is a hefty burden to carry. It’s a really tough burden to carry as well, and when you actually do have these people around you. You use them as well; even with me having the people around me, sometimes I go back to old patterns. I turn into the man in the cave and try and figure out my own and lone wolf fit, but fortunately, I’m grateful that I’ve learned a lot, and I do that a lot less than when I do it, I catch myself a lot faster. 

Then I reach out, and I share it; you often get in Voxer for me just saying, Hey, this is our field, you sent me a vox, either, that is saying, Hey, this is my idea. When I come to the UK, how about going to the businesses from The Brotherhood guys for today and consulting them? And so on. And I was like, my first reaction was, “Hey, what about me?” How childish is that? But I was like, fuck it, and I want to say to him as well. So I was like, “Yeah, sounds like a great idea.” but what about me? Am I not good enough? Can I not come? And I was like, boy, sounds great. That’s, that’s my own insecurities. And I was my own stuff that I got to recognize and choose whether I’m going to buy that story or not. But the point being is just being able to have someone like you in my life, which I can be real with and come clean too and know that you’re not going to judge me or, you’re going to be able to have an honest conversation with me is just, it really is priceless. And, again, back to my point, it isn’t easy to convey the impact this can have on you until you actually put a willingness to put yourself out there and develop those kinds of relationships in your life. When you do create them. I bet that you’re going to be thinking, “Wow, how have I not done this all along?”, “Why did I not do this sooner?” So freeing is so enlightening, it’s so refreshing and supportive, it really is amazing, and is so key. And in my opinion, one of the reasons why suicide is so high with men today is because of a lack of these relationships. We’re all crying out for it, and we’re all craving it. Yet so many minutes and time of kind not repelling it but resisting it, as well, despite being the very thing that they want.

Doug Holt 17:27  

Well, absolutely. And I’m over here laughing, chuckling because I remember that call. You and I were going back and forth. And I think something important to mention here is you’re vulnerable when you share it. “Hey, what about me?” Right? And I didn’t judge you. Because when you’re vulnerable, when someone is vulnerable, you don’t think about it. It’s just natural. You allowed me into what really was going on for you. And this isn’t some airy-fairy thing. This is just what you just shared with me was what occurred for you. And I think that’s what a lot of men are afraid to do. Like, what are they going to think of me? And that’s what prevents a lot of men from reaching out, and you look at our Facebook group. Our Facebook group is thriving. And yet we have 1000s of men in there. And there are only a few that are posting consistently, right? They’re waiting for an invitation; it’s like going to a party, standing in the corner, and just waiting for the girl to come to ask you out or waiting for someone to talk to you. Everybody’s been in that situation somehow, shape, or form, whether it be a business event or something like that. But we need to, as men and humans listening to us stop doing this in your own life. You want to take a baby step, go to the Facebook group, The Activation Method, and post in there, share, start having a voice share authentically, right, share the way that you would want to be shared with, and that’s something I’ve always admired about you, Tim, is you always with me, at least. I’m sure you do this with many people because I assume you do you share very authentically and openly. And it’s not all the good stuff. It’s the mixed emotions of life. Right? Jealousy, anger, sometimes upset with me. You’re upset is something I did or said, or it’s a misinterpretation. I think we all know I’m perfect. 

So that’s hard to believe. But in any event, right? You’re sharing what’s occurring for you. And that allows me as the recipient of your sharing to get closer to see who you are, and there’s no judgment like I don’t judge you when you share things. It doesn’t really even occur to me. It’s just it’s authentic, which then I reciprocate by sharing what’s going on in my life. Right. So the men The reason I’m sharing this, so to speak, is men listening to this right here. Time had to say that you need to get to be a leader to be a man and show up authentically in the relationships you have. Authentically in the communication that you have with other guys, right? And what does that mean? That doesn’t mean you have to share everything in your life, don’t go crazy here, right? Nobody wants to be that guy or be next to that guy who dumps all their baggage on them. But share what’s occurring to you, share the good stuff, share if you’re having a problem in your relationship, find a man you trust, and share it with them. Right? or start, take a baby step, right. It’s like training for a half marathon; many men in The Powerful Man movement or doing a half marathon coming up. And for some of them, that’s gonna be their first time, or they don’t really run. And all it matters is lacing up your shoes and taking that first step. And that first step for a lot of you guys listening to this will be posting in that Facebook group and just sharing something, or just even saying, Hi, right? Hi. And that’s it, and allow conversations to happen. If you’re bold, go above and beyond and post a video. That’s authentic, Tim; you’ve shared your story many times here. You went all out, right? You went, hey, this is me. I’m taking a look, and this is who I really am. And out of that, I happen to know that some people were like, Hey, what are you doing, and other people were like, wow, that guy’s got some serious balls, right. And they were attracted to your ability not to follow the norm and allow you to step into more of a leadership role than you currently did. So again, not to beat a dead horse, but men listening to this, I know who you are, I can see you right now. And don’t be a wallflower in your own life, have a conversation, step out authentically, talk about things going on, and take those first steps.

Tim Matthews 21:48  

So true. One of the things we spoke about earlier today was the amazing conversations that we have within our leadership team, between the four of us, and how we actually enjoy those a lot more than business conversations. And we love business, and we have some amazing business conversations. At the same time, we have some conversations about our personal life, that is just in a completely another level where everybody shares so vulnerably, and it’s, it’s always those conversations that I remember the most, they inspire me the most, and then that I enjoy the most. I’m very grateful to be able to have that in my life. Thank you, and thank the other men as well; thank you to the other men who do that and share that space with me. And it takes a muscle to, isn’t it once you have that first conversation? Now I’ve got a neighbor next door that recently moved in; we would kind of have passed every now, and then we’ve not really seen each other a great deal. Similar age to me goes and plays golf and has a lot of interest similar to me. And last week, I went to play golf with him for the first time. And I dive straight in there with the level three conversations. Because I want him to know who I am. It wasn’t…I didn’t just dive in there straightaway. As soon as I stepped foot in his car, he was like, Hey, this is me. And this is my life story in Bama, Mobile, boom, boom. It was over the period of that first meeting. Now, by the time we left it, we knew a hell of a lot about one another. He shared some very personal things with me; just over 12 months ago, he struggled to cope with business. He went and saw a psychologist and all sorts of different things. He really, really opened up to me and really shared some amazing, amazing things about himself and vice versa. I shared some very personal things with him to nothing that you guys don’t know, but still very personal. And what happened as a result of it he and I ended the evening. Just have after having such a great time. Great time. Yeah, we’ll add one or two beers maximum. So the grip time wasn’t around alcohol or anything like that was around the connection. The more that you are willing to have those connections and the more that you see, “Hey, wow, it’s actually all right,” “Wow, I’m still alive,” “Wow, I feel better,” “Wow. I’ve got more connection”. the more that you see the benefits, the more you’re going to want to do it becomes addictive because the less you hide it is amazing. It really is. So I keep saying, Doug, I encourage you wholeheartedly to seek out the connection with other men in your life that you can have those level three conversations with because you are worth it. You deserve that—a level of relationship and connection in your life with other men.

Doug Holt 25:03  

So, so true. Well, on that note, Tim, we have a level three conversation coming up with the rest of the coaches in the brand, that powerful man movement in just a few moments. So, gentlemen, I’m gonna invite you right now to step into your own power. So first step, if you are willing to do it, you decide right now, yes. Now, even before I say it if you’re willing to do something or not, go to the Facebook group, start a conversation, show up, say something to the other men. You have 1000 other men from around the world, over 1000 from around the world, who have raised their hand to join a private community free community, a private community, though, where they can share. So step out, put yourself out there; step two, I encourage you to have a conversation with someone else, another man, like Tim, was saying, a neighbor or someone else. Remember, if you aren’t having these conversations, right? You’re complaining. If you really feel this with it, there are not enough men around you, or in your life, so to speak, to have in-depth conversations? Well, you are effectively the guy sitting on the wall waiting for someone to talk to you, which probably means the guys around you are the same way. I look at this because there’s really 90 plus percent of the men are just waiting for another man to be a leader to step out and have a conversation with them. So my second challenge to you if you want to take it to the next level will be that guy who walks up and says “hi,” just has a conversation, and starts the communication. So I look forward to seeing you guys in the Facebook group as we talk about that. Of course. We’d love to have you as part of The Brotherhood down the line, should you take that journey. But for Tim and I, that’s a wrap for this episode, and we’ll see you next time on The Powerful Man show.