Episode #1011
Doug and Coach Neil get into a real, grounded conversation about what it looks like to lead at home when things are shifting—whether it’s your kid pulling away for the first time or your marriage feeling a little off. They talk through the quiet stuff most men don’t say out loud: feeling alone, second-guessing yourself, and wondering if you’re really showing up the way you want to.
This isn’t about fixing your wife or your kid. It’s about you. Are you actually leading, or are you hoping things sort themselves out? Doug shares a moment that stopped him in his tracks, and Neil opens up about what his son—and his ex—are still teaching him about how to show up as a man with purpose and presence.
If you’ve been coasting or caught in blame, this episode’s a chance to reset. You don’t need to be perfect. But you do need to be honest. That’s where change actually starts.
If your marriage feels off and you’re tired of guessing what to do, grab the free training at fixmarriage.thepowerfulman.com/scales. It’s direct, clear, and gives you a real starting point without needing to bring your wife into it right away. Just you, leading from the front.
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Transcription
Doug Holt 0:00
And more often than not, Neil, what the guys will say is, I’ve thought about it a little bit, but I don’t really have a plan for the legacy that I’m going to leave. I say, guess what you’re leaving a legacy right now, whether you want to or not. You’re leaving a legacy now. Is it going to be a legacy where your child thinks they’re stupid, or something you’ve passed down where they feel they’re not good enough? Or is it going to be a legacy where your child, your son, learns that what other people think of me that’s not my business, that’s not important. What’s important is what I think of myself.
Doug Holt 0:41
Hey guys, welcome back to another episode of the TPM show. I am here with one of our amazing coaches, Coach Neil. And today we’re going to be talking about a very interesting topic that I think you dads are really going to be interested in. And hey, if you don’t have kids, this will also apply to you.
Coach Neil is here. We’re doing The Alpha Reset today, so by the time you watch this, you’ll have 10 men walk through that crucible. And if you don’t know what The Alpha Reset is, it’s our four-day transformational in-person event. It’s one we’ve been doing for about eight years now, and the men that go through it will say it’s the most transformational experience they’ve ever had in their life. Neil, thanks for being here.
Neil 1:20
Thanks for having me absolutely, absolutely. So happy to be here. I love…
Doug Holt 1:24
Having you at the TPM ranch. Always have great discussions and a good time.
Neil 1:28
Indeed. It’s a very special place, and being up here in the mountains nothing better for me.
Doug Holt 1:37
Me too. Me too. Well, we’ve got 10 men arriving this evening. Without giving anything away, we’ve got a great staff and support team that’s here to support them through these next four days. I’m excited.
Neil 1:50
Me too. I’m like, let’s go support these men to break through whatever’s going on for them and hold that space. I’m really excited. I can’t wait to be collaborating with you, Doug. It’s an absolute honor to be in your space, watch you work, support you, and take these men on.
Doug Holt 2:09
The feeling’s very mutual. We were talking about being here in that space, and you were sharing a story about your son and what you were going through. And you were nice enough to offer that up as a topic for us to talk about so other men can relate.
Neil 2:23
I think so. Every time I do work like this and I have to go away, there’s always something that pops up during the week before. A lot of logistical stuff, mechanics. This particular event happens to fall on the same week my son is in the Sierras in Mammoth. For the first time ever, he’s away from me for more than a week without communication. That’s never happened.
I call him every day. We talk all the time. He calls me all the time on his iWatch that I gave him for Christmas. And so yesterday morning, at 5am, we meet up at his school with his teacher and nine other kids and a couple of staff to travel to Mammoth like an eight-hour drive. And it dawned on me in those moments that he’s going to be away, that I won’t actually get to see him. He’s 11 years old.
Of course, I’m going to be busy up here supporting men, so I’m kind of checked out in a way. But the reality is, I’ll be away doing my thing in the mountains too. But what really hit me was this void that suddenly crept in. I’m a single dad. I have a great relationship with his mom, but I’m single. And it’s like, in a few years he’s not going to be around. That really hit me.
I love this boy, but he’s not going to be here forever. And it was in the moment when he was in the truck, and he saw me, and he said, “I’m happy you’re here, Dad.” But he was still connected to the guys in the truck. He was so in his element. And it was like he’s pulling away, in a way. And it was his rite of passage. It was the first time ever away camping in this environment without mom or dad around.
So I was thinking about the things he’s going to be going through, and I’m not there to pick up the pieces. I’m not a helicopter parent, but I am very much about letting him trip and fall and have his own experience. Still, the reality of not being there really hit home for me. It brought up some old memories of feeling alone. Not lonely, but feeling alone.
Doug Holt 4:45
I can see that. My son’s eight years old, and I’m starting to see a little bit of that too as far as the pulling away and the pull of friendship. With his friends, he loves being around Dad, but when his best friend shows up, he’s all about hanging out with his buddy. Which is magical, and at the same time the writing is on the wall that this little boy is going to become a man.
What do we get to do to guide him? What do I get to do to guide my son? I was thinking about this yesterday. I was talking to you, I couldn’t fall asleep, and I was thinking is the way that I’m showing up, am I representing the man I want him to become?
What a great litmus test for us as fathers to go through.
Neil 5:45
Gosh, just a great question. I heard that the other day when somebody said I’m in this marriage. He was going through a breakdown, and he said, “Am I going to walk away from this marriage?” But first the question was, “Am I going to show up? Have I shown up as the father and as the husband that I could be the greatest husband and father I could be?” And he categorically said, no.
Doug Holt 6:17
I had the same thing happen to me. I talk about this story all the time. I was down in your neck of the woods, in the San Diego area. Erin and I were going through our stuff, getting ready to separate, divorce that was the route we were going. Luckily, I had a client that had a beach house, so not a bad place to end up if you’re taking some reflection.
I was running on the beach. And you know how in San Diego, in that area, with the mist, the waves crash and hit you as you’re going for a run, that salty air? I asked myself have I been the best? Because in my head it was all her fault. If my wife Erin would just realize how great I am I run a business, I’m doing all these great things, if she’d just get on board like everybody else is, how could she not see this?
So I’m running on the beach, and I asked myself that question: Have I been the best husband I could be for just 30 days? Small period of time 30 days. Not even a second goes by, and I hear this loud “No” in my head, almost like it came from the universe, God, something. It was one of those reactive thoughts, this “No” that was so powerful it dawned on me wait a minute, Doug.
TPM wasn’t around back then. There wasn’t a lot for men to go through. The only thing was “Men Are from Mars,” right? There wasn’t a lot that related to me, that spoke to me as a man. And then I started thinking oh crap, if I haven’t been the best husband I could be, then why am I blaming her? If I haven’t even shown up for 30 days consistently, how can I point the finger at the other side of the street?
Neil 8:07
Isn’t it wonderful when you have that moment where you decide to take responsibility and have that epiphany like, wait a minute, what is not working? And wherever you go, there you are. The expression is, how you do one thing is how you do everything. Yes.
It’s interesting, because a lot of the guys will talk about this. They’ll say, “Well, I go to work and I do this.” And I’ll ask, “How do the people you work with feel about you?” Business might be thriving, but is it really? You might be bringing in the dollars, but what could you be bringing in?
Doug Holt 8:56
Why’d you start business in the first place?
Neil 8:59
What’s your relationship to the business? What’s your relationship to the people in your life, the customers? How are you showing up for them?
And so, to have that mirror put up in front of you which for me was put up in front of me in the last two days it showed me how I get to show up. Not just for Ashton, but for my ex-wife too. She’s probably the one adult I see more often than anybody else. She’s my developmental angel, as much as that pains me sometimes.
Because if we didn’t have children together, would I ever see her again? Probably not. But this is the universe giving me her for the rest of my son’s life, and our lives together. I loved her, and I still love her as a human being. She was in my life for a reason, and I want to make sure that I become the greatest person I can be. She’s only shown me something.
We had a situation the day before Ashton and I flew out here. It was challenging to be away from it. I stayed calm, held space for her, and she was calm. The evening came around, and she realized what she had done wasn’t right. She came back being nice, kind, generous “I’ll cook dinner,” she said. I could see she was trying to make up for what she said. I didn’t say anything. I stayed neutral and carried on.
It reminded me of a gentleman I was coaching who blamed his wife for an affair she’d had. He was being a victim, complaining to his friends. We went back and forth for four or five weeks. Then I had this epiphany: Is he looking at himself, or just at her? He kept saying, “She caused this. I can’t think about anything else. She’s been with another guy.”
And I said, “Wait a minute. The only reason she is the way she is is because of you. Everything she’s done, her actions, are based on who you’ve been. Are you willing to take responsibility for that?”
Doug Holt 11:19
Like you said, it’s mirroring, right? People respond to us. A lot of guys don’t like hearing this, because they don’t want to accept responsibility. But people treat us the way we allow them to treat us because we’ve trained them to.
Think about it: when you go home to your family, you fall back into roles, no matter if you’re 30, 40, 50, 60. Maybe you have an older or younger sibling, and you go right back into the pecking order and the old jokes, because you’ve trained them to treat you a certain way, and vice versa.
When you switch, it can be scary for people. They think, “Wait a minute, this isn’t safe. I know Neil to be this guy, and now Neil’s showing up differently.” We see this with men in the program, in The Activation Method. Some change their marriages in the first week, because they start showing up differently, and the woman recognizes it. Other men meet resistance, because suddenly they’re showing up with the power inside of them, and their wife wonders, “Is this real?” She’ll test it.
In my situation, the embarrassing part of my story isn’t that I was running on the beach and heard that loud “No.” The embarrassing part is that I tried for 30 days and I failed. I couldn’t be that guy for 30 days consistently the first time. What did that tell me? It told me I had a lot of work to do. And it was up to me.
It also told me I was being a victim, because I was blaming her. I had given my power up to my wife. At the time, I thought of myself as macho boxing, doing all the “tough guy” things but to admit I was a victim? That devastated me. Still, if I was going to be real with myself, I had to admit it. I was blaming her for what wasn’t working in my life, in our marriage. Yet here I was, unable to show up as that man for 30 days. That’s on me. I realized it was time to look at my side of the street look in the mirror.
Neil 13:41
And did that bring a sense of peace? Because I feel like even in my failed marriage I had done a lot of work up until the point when it was failing. There’s so much information out there, but it’s how it’s presented. I had done a lot of work on relationships, but sometimes you just can’t see your own blind spots.
I remember a coach telling me, “Let go of the drama. Let go of the triggers you feel when your wife is pointing the finger or testing you.” And I thought, oh, okay. When I stopped reacting, the divorce went through seamlessly. But I often wonder if I had done that earlier, what would have happened?
Doug Holt 14:29
It was very freeing. It gave me control. Because now I could see the problem, and I could fix the problem. The problem happened to be the person sitting in this chair me.
Like you, I had done a ton of personal development, but never really on relationships. I had read some books before we got married, listened to audio books, had discussions. But when you’re in the mud, in the thick of it that’s where the rubber meets the road. And so many people are afraid to do the work.
You know this as well, because you’re inside the movement. We might have 4000 guys inquire about The Activation Method in a month. Of those 4000 men, very few have the courage to actually get on a call with an advisor. Because what does it mean if I tell someone my marriage isn’t working?
As you know, the men who actually step through the door and do the work those are the 1% of the 1%. Those are the guys who start to change their lives.
Neil 15:42
And I think that 1% I say this to the guys every week you are now in the top echelon of life. If your wife does want to leave you, she’ll likely go to a guy in the 99% who doesn’t do this work. And then she’s going to get exactly what she didn’t want, just with someone else.
Doug Holt 16:02
I was at the pool just the other day, hanging out with a lot of wives. Most of their husbands were sitting in lawn chairs by the pool, having drinks. And I can’t tell you how many times those wives asked me, “Doug, how do I get him into one of your programs? How do I get him to take action?”
They love their husbands, they’re not planning on leaving, they’re in good relationships. But they want so much more for him because it also reflects on their kids.
I’m curious I’m going to change subjects for a second, if I can. You said that when you looked in the metaphorical mirror, that was very telling. What message did you get?
Neil 16:43
Where would I not feel worthy that this relationship is worthy of me? I think it also shows up in being a dad. Am I worthy enough to be the dad? My son said to me the other day, “Dad, I wish sometimes you could just be 11.”
That gave me a lot of great feedback. It showed me I’m showing up. He loves being around me, wants to be around me 100%. What a great compliment. But not just to be his friend. I’m his dad, and I always coach him. I say, “I can be your coach now, I can be your dad.” But it’s the worthiness in that relationship with my wife, too.
Now I coach my wife with her boyfriend, and the ironies are extraordinary. I love the fact that when there’s a massive breakdown like that, there’s a great breakthrough for both of us. And now I feel so powerful with my wife.
Doug Holt 17:44
I want to buy you a gift. Look, if your marriage is struggling and let’s be real, every marriage struggles at some point but yours is struggling where you’ve lost that love, admiration, and respect, I want to help you.
I want to buy you a copy of the book that I wrote, A Man’s Guide on How to Save Your Marriage Without Talking About It. In here, I’ve distilled over eight years of programs that we’ve developed at TPM to help men just like you save their marriages without talking about it. There’s no fluff, no BS. It’s an action plan you can start using today to actually save your marriage and bring that love and respect back into your family, back into your house.
You deserve it. Look, all I ask is you pay the postage. You pay the shipping. I’ll buy the book for you. That way, you can take massive action today. Click the link or find it in the bio and get your copy now.
Neil 18:36
Having this tool in my toolbox from The Activation Method the simplest things of just listening, and listening some more, and validating this person I love, the mother of my son, listening to her when she’s in a tough spot with her boyfriend and noticing when she’s running away.
I said, “He’s just a mirror. Notice what you’re doing. You did the same for me.” She asked, “Did I?” I said, “Yes, and it’s okay.”
It was interesting what you were speaking into allowing that when I’m in a difficult situation, instead of making up a story that it’s a confrontation, it’s just another conversation. Not a confrontation.
One of the men I was coaching said that the other day. I told him, “Absolutely, it’s just a conversation. But we’re afraid to say something because of our own limitations. If you’re attached to your limitations, you get to keep your limitations. So what is it that you truly desire from your relationship, that you’re scared of? We can unpack that.”
So that mirror for me was my worthiness.
Doug Holt 19:47
That brings up for me picturing some of the guys listening to this right now saying, “Well, my wife always says this, that, or the other about me.” Again, at the pool, it’s funny. Hanging out with these families is a great litmus test you see this all playing out.
The line I always like to use, Neil, is: if I called you purple, how triggered are you? You’re not, right? Because you don’t believe it yourself.
What we need to know as men is that when our wives say something about us that upsets us, it’s because part of us believes she’s right. Otherwise, imagine your wife yelling, “You’re purple! You’re purple!” You’d think it’s ridiculous. But if she says, “You’re a bad husband, you’re a bad father, you’re bad in bed, you’re a bad provider” if you believe that to be true about yourself, and especially if you’ve given her so much power over who you are as a man, that’s when it’s devastating. That’s when guys go into DEER mode: defend, excuse, explain, and react.
So it’s that mirror. If my wife says something that upsets me, I get to take a breath and ask, “What about what she said am I holding on to or believing to be true?”
For me, one area I think I do really well is being a father. So if someone says, “Doug, you’re a bad father,” I just think, whatever. I’ve got that one covered. Am I perfect? No, not at all.
Neil 21:31
And I don’t think perfection is the point. This is where humility comes in. My theory is, if you’re an only child, it can be different. But with siblings, there’s always this pecking order. The older brother, the younger sister only the strongest survive. And the way we do that is pointing fingers: “You did this, you shouldn’t do that.”
For me, it showed up in school. I had a really bad result in high school, and my brothers went after me for years, like sharks with blood in the water. Later, I found out I had dyslexia. At the time, teachers didn’t know what that was. They just said, “He’s not good enough,” and pushed me aside.
So I carried this story: I’m not smart enough. That ego conversation followed me. And then in marriage or parenthood, when the wife points the finger, guess what? Triggered confirmation.
My son said to me the other day, “Mom makes me feel this.” I told him, “No one can make you feel anything without your permission.” Later, we were playing wiffle ball in the garden, and he asked, “Dad, why don’t you care what people say about you?” I said, “Because that’s on them. That’s their business. Would it help me to worry about it? No. It’s exhausting. As long as I come from love, kindness, generosity, and giving what’s not to love about me? I know I’m a good guy. And if I’m being an asshole, I’ll own it.”
It’s interesting you mentioned the pool. One of the guys in my group, who’s in Alcoholics Anonymous, told me about a gathering of ten men and their wives. They surveyed the wives, and 10 out of 10 said the same thing: their men weren’t showing up. They wished their husbands would step up, lead, be the man. None of them were doing it.
That was a huge epiphany for him. He realized, “Oh my God, this is in every single man.” And I’ve said the same thing to every single one of them.
Doug Holt 24:43
I mean, we joke around within TPM because our advisors and sales team get emails and messages all the time from single women saying, “Hey, where do I find one of these guys?”
I get this all the time too, from men who go through the program. They go into The Brotherhood, which is our one-year mastermind group, and their wives have single friends. The wives are like, “Hey, he’s changed, he’s accelerated.”
So guys in The Brotherhood are consistently working on all five territories: self, health, wealth, relationships, and business. It’s not just that the relationship has been repaired. And women talk oh my gosh, do they talk. Owning a gym myself, I heard all the conversations. And now, even with my wife and her friends, again, I’m sitting in the pool with the women. While the guys are sitting down, what do you think the women are talking about? They’re talking about their husbands. And I’m just kind of laughing, sitting in the pool, just relaxing.
Neil 25:40
And you’re connecting with the women, by the way.
Doug Holt 25:42
The guys are over there. It was a smart play. And you hear that all the time the women are dying for men to step up and lead.
And it doesn’t mean being a jerk. A lot of guys misunderstand. Dr. Robert Glover’s book No More Mr. Nice Guy I mention that a lot on the show because it’s such a seminal book. I remember when I first read that, it was after TPM, and I went, “Oh, that was me.”
I was the guy who was trying to be nicer in order to get favor from my wife, rather than doing what she really needed me owning my own stuff, taking care of my side of the street, and stepping up just like I was in every other area. For some reason in that area, I backed down. I thought I was being a better man by being more submissive. “Okay, just bite my tongue, stiff upper lip,” right? Whatever it was.
Neil 26:38
And what women want is for you to step up. They challenge us to step up.
Doug Holt 26:44
Yes. Until men do that and actually take action, they’ll always be one of the 99%. And women are like, “Oh my gosh, this is not what I’m looking for.”
You said one other thing that I want to touch on. You were talking about your son and I love the way you talk about your son. You can tell there’s so much love and care there. Something I tell the guys all the time is, “What’s your legacy plan?”
So in November, at the Brotherhood event in Sonoma County wine country, it’s all going to be about legacy. And more often than not, Neil, what the guys will say is, “Ah, I’ve thought about it a little bit, but I don’t really have a plan for the legacy I’m going to leave.”
Guess what? You’re leaving a legacy right now, whether you want to or not. You’re leaving a legacy now. Is it going to be a legacy where your child thinks they’re stupid, or that they’re not good enough? Or is it going to be a legacy where your child your son learns that what other people think of him is not his business, not important, and that it’s what he thinks of himself that matters? Those are two completely different paths.
Neil 27:54
Totally different paths. And I know when something lands with my son, because he’s very vocal. It’s kind of a tradition in my family. My mother said once, with me, my two brothers, and my dad all standing in the kitchen: “One thing about the Talbots is they believe in themselves.”
And it’s to the point it can be frustrating. She would roll her eyes, and I’d pick them up and roll them back. But I notice with my son, he has that strong conviction. His mom does too.
We were in the car the other day, and he turned to me and said, “Dad, you know it’s okay to cry.” I was crying because I had just lost a friend. I looked at him and said, “It really is, isn’t it?”
I told him, “That’s what you are. You cry all the time when you get hurt. You’re allowed to feel what you’re feeling.”
If there’s a legacy I want to leave, it’s that my son gets to feel everything his pain, his joy and connect to that, connect to his soul, so people see him as a vulnerable man who owns his truth. And when he eventually meets women in his life, he can stand for that and stand for her in a powerful way, owning his voice. He’s already doing that, because he calls me all the time when I’m not with him, expressing his anger, and I speak to him about it.
So that’s the legacy allowing him to feel whatever he’s feeling in the moment, even with his mum, in a loving way. I tell him, “She’s trying to support you, but you get to feel what you’re feeling with her.” Mum comes into the conversation, and I say, “I hear what you’re saying.”
That opens a corridor for us to connect so deeply that he feels seen, he feels heard, and mum does too. That’s the legacy I want to leave that he gets to feel what he’s feeling and not have it pushed away or stuffed down, like I had as a child. I don’t think my parents did it deliberately, but that’s why we’re here: to break the domino effect of what wasn’t working.
There’s a lot that does work, but some things don’t like dismissing feelings. It’s part of the socialization of children we’re breaking the cycle of. A child cries, and we pick them up and say, “It’s okay.” The child looks at you quizzically, like, “I can’t feel this? I’m not allowed?”
Or a kid hurts their knee, and you say, “You’re going to be okay.” And they’re thinking, “Hang on, this hurts. I want to feel this.”
I want my son to feel that. I tell him, “I know it hurts, buddy. It’s okay. You’re going to get through it. Allow yourself to feel it. What’s coming up for you?”
That’s the legacy I want to leave.
Doug Holt 31:23
Love that. I can tell you, as a child of divorced parents my parents divorced when I was five, separated when I was four I remember the comments my parents said about each other. I remember which set of parents did the work to repair and which ones didn’t.
Your kids know. And I’m saying this not only for you, but as a compliment to you. Because what would you call your ex-wife? Your developmental…
Neil 31:47
Angel. Your developmental angel. I love that.
Doug Holt 31:51
What a great way of repair. You know, the paradigm switching.
Neil 31:54
Where that comes from it came from my dear friend who passed away in January. She said, if you are labeling somebody “my wife’s a narcissist,” or “my husband’s a whatever” you are still being the victim of that relationship.
The moment she said, “She’s your developmental angel,” I went, Oh yes. That just landed. And of course she is, because everybody’s in my life for my growth. She’s only showing you what’s working and not working in your life.
So when she comes at you going, “Why aren’t you doing this? Why aren’t you doing that?” she’s your accountability buddy. She’s the girl in your life saying, “I’m wanting and waiting for you to show up.”
When you find that in your heart to say, “Thank you for showing me what’s not working. Thank you for seeing my blind spot,” that’s what she’s there for. And then you’ll rise together. The rising tide lifts all boats.
Doug Holt 33:04
So well said. I love that. Well, I just want to thank you for the work you do for the movement, for the men inside and out, the work you’re doing with your son. You’re a joy to be around. Thank you for changing lives.
Neil 33:15
Thank you. Thank you, Doug. It’s an absolute honor to be here and support you in this endeavor. Yes, I love it. Thank you.
Doug Holt 33:21
Gentlemen, as I always say, in the moment of insight, take massive action.
Coach Neil just dropped a lot of knowledge bombshells on you guys here today. This is definitely going to be one you’re going to want to listen to two, three, four times. Save it. If anything, write down those last couple of sentences about your wife.
Is she triggering you? If she is, is that really just exposing something you get to work on? Think of it as a positive, rather than labeling her as a b-word or a c-word or whatever else. Trying to clean up my language here. But that is the key.
If you can do that, now you have power. You’ve taken back your own power. Because if Coach Neil had just decided to blame his wife, fight with her, argue “No, I’m not a bad guy” he would have been giving her the power, rather than reclaiming it for himself. Instead, he decided, “Maybe I can take that on and look at it. Maybe that’s something I can work on.”
So give that a shot in your life and see if it works for you.
If you’re interested in working with a coach like Coach Neil, go over to thepowerfulman.com and check out the website to see if it’s a good fit for you. There’s a short application. We don’t take everybody, nor should we.
But no matter what you do, do something. Guys, be one of the 1%. Step out there and leave the legacy. Your kids are watching. Leave the legacy of the man that does the work.
We’ll see you next time on The Powerful Man Show.
