Episode #857
In this episode, we dive deep into the often overlooked but critically important topic of guilt and how it affects men, particularly those striving to balance their roles as husbands, fathers, and business owners. Join Tim Matthews and Stu Gordon as they unravel the complexities of guilt, its impact on mental health, and its potential to derail personal growth and fulfillment.
Guilt can be a silent killer, eroding your self-esteem and preventing you from living your best life. Tim and Stu share powerful insights and practical strategies to help you overcome guilt, prioritize self-care, and reclaim your sense of self-worth. They discuss real-life stories and actionable tips that you can implement immediately to start making positive changes in your life.
Whether you’re feeling overwhelmed by the pressures of providing for your family, struggling to maintain a connection with your spouse, or simply looking for ways to improve your mental and emotional well-being, this episode offers valuable guidance and encouragement.
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Transcription
Tim Matthews 0:00
A lot of guys we work with, especially with them being entrepreneurs can fall into the trap of prioritizing everybody else, the
Stu Gordon 0:07
selfless thing to do is to go out the door, and go and have that little bit of time for myself and my adjuster. Because then the better version of me shows up is
Tim Matthews 0:16
when they’re at work, they feel guilty that they want to be at home, when they’re at home, they feel guilty, that should be at work. And it’s just this never-ending cycle.
Stu Gordon 0:23
You can’t just keep working and do things for other people. And feeling good about yourself just doesn’t work that way.
Tim Matthews 0:40
Have you ever felt guilty, about taking time for yourself to do things that bring you joy? Today, we’re going to talk about the crucial topic. That is we’re going to explore why guilt exists and how it holds men back from doing things for themselves that really enjoy the consequences that can have for them in their personal relationships at home at work and how to break the cycle. Stewie G. Good morning. They did. Good. Good. Yeah, yeah, I’m great. So just to give the listeners a quick insight. I know you’ve been on a few shows before episodes of the TPM show. But you head up our client success team. You’ve been part of the team now for coming up three years, I think. Yep. Yep. Prior to that, you were involved in the movement, probably for about three years as well. Yeah. All in all, you’ve been around the movement, for about six years, quick snapshot, 30 seconds. Just let the guys listening know what brought to the movement in the first place. So I
Stu Gordon 1:45
came in the early days before the days of the website and Facebook pages, you gave me a lovely call. And ultimately, I was I was struggling. wife was on the face of it really good. But internally, I was just really not in a good place. I had everything on the surface that should have made me happy. And yet, I was sad. There was a lot of sadness with a lot of pain, a lot of anger, and a lot of things under the surface that I just didn’t understand. And that was starting to impact on the marriage, my relationship with my kids. And yeah, what I slowly started to learn was that under the surface, I just didn’t really like myself. So it’s been a number of years of exploring and unpicking why that was.
Tim Matthews 2:25
Fortunately, we do not, we cannot say that is the case today. It’s true, which is a beautiful journey. You’ve been on very inspired. Well done, Brother, it’s, you’ve had some battle scars along the way, but you’ve stuck at it and it’s paid off. So anyway, kind of let’s dive into this idea of guilt. Obviously, you’re very close with the men. You spend a lot of time with me speaking with them. I’m curious, do you see this coming up for them?
Stu Gordon 2:50
Yes, yeah, it’s it’s a daily thing. It’s a daily thing. And not just men in the movement men that you see randomly on Facebook or Twitter or people that you’re even now popping up, seen it with friends, you know, with really close people who are close to me, which is why one of the first things we talked to the guys about filling their own cup, stone habit, you know, what can we do just to slightly change that narrative from being so attached, usually to the wives the validation, and feel like they can’t do something for themselves? themselves?
Tim Matthews 3:21
Yeah, I would definitely agree. I think, you know, a lot of the guys we work with, especially with them being entrepreneurs can fall into the trap of prioritizing everybody else. Right? They get so used to sacrificing themselves in order to grow the business, that in my experience, their perseverance goes from being a strength to becoming a weakness, and as a result, they dig in. And they just grind it out. And in the process, as I’ve said, take care of everybody else, except for themselves who are not taking care of the people that work there straightaway going home to then want to be with the wife and kids, which I get. But then they wake up and the cycle just continues. And when they’re at work, they feel guilty that they want to be at home when they’re at home, they feel guilty that it should be at work. And it’s just this never-ending cycle that they really can’t get away from. And as a result, the idea of them doing something for themselves. A common objection there gives me which I believe is a total story. I just don’t have time, I’d have time to make any time for myself. And it’s like, really like if you were to take an hour out this morning. I’m thinking of one person in particular. A dear friend of mine. I’ve said too many times. Look if you would take an hour or two out this morning or do something you love, be it paddleboarding or whatever the business isn’t going to burn down. Like things are not going to fall to the ground. So logically, it’s possible but For so many guys, they feel as though it’s such a difficult task. Because even the idea of them going and taking that two hours for themselves or whatever, because of so many of the things that feel like they’re behind on, and they could do like spending time with the kids or the wife or whatever, even enjoying that two-hour block paddleboarding becomes really tough.
Stu Gordon 5:21
constantly think about what they should be doing and not fully present. Yeah, it’s, well, it’s one of the most common lines or things I will say to some people, it’s just a challenge. Are you Is there a difference, or what is the difference between being selfish and selfless? Because people think, Oh, I’m gonna do this for myself, I’m gonna go and do it. And that’s been really selfish. And quite often, the wife might tell them, they’re being selfish, because they’re not working, or they’re not actually there some of the time. And for me the big things to make, for my example, my decompression, at the end of the day, the easiest thing for me to do would be to use the dive-in with Claire and the kids, because that time stuff and the kids kick it off, and Claire needs some help. And sometimes as well, but I also usually that the selfless thing to do, is to get out the door. And going after that little bit of time for myself, I might adjust it, because then the better version of me shows up. If I’m not grounded, if my cup isn’t full, if I’m not doing things for myself, then what can go from anywhere from being reactive to being almost to being kind of being resent having some resentment? You can’t just keep working and do things for other people. And feeling good about yourself just doesn’t work that way.
Tim Matthews 6:23
Yeah, you know, I was looking at some of the research here that we did for the show. And the three main points that we kind of touched on when we were looking at understanding the guilt of self care. And the first one was societal expectations and conditioning. The idea that many men are conditioned to prioritize others and view self-care as selfish, is to your point, right? The other one is the role of family and upbringing. You know, family expectations, and upbringing, play a significant role. I know a lot of guys that I speak with, were made to feel guilty as a kid, like guilt was used as a bit of a bargaining tool, especially if the parents were separated. And let’s say, as a child, the guy wanted to go and see his father, the mother may say, Oh, go on, then, you know, you just guess how to stay here alone, you know, you go over and see him. Even that one line, right impacts a kid and makes a kid feel very guilty about wanting to go and spend time with someone that love. The third one is internalized beliefs and self-worth, you know, actually believing that you’re worth the trap for a lot of guys believe that worth is tied to their ability to provide and care for others, which can therefore make self-care seem as though it’s undeserved. Yeah, and again, leads to guilt.
Stu Gordon 7:45
That was one of the bigger ones. For me, when I had my own business I’ve seen a lot of business owners is they have the idea that about work really hard and build a business up and provide that gives them the validation that makes them happy. So they do more of that. And I think a lot of the time as well, particularly in relationships, they think, oh, okay, if I do this, it’s gonna make my wife happy, it’s gonna give her what she needs, not realizing at the time they’re actually not doing it for themselves means that they’re just completely relying on either the business or their wife, to make them feel good, make them feel happy. So it can put an awful lot of pressure on the wife, and the family without realizing it. And yeah, for me, it was, you know, my upbringing was one where there was, it was a family unit. And we were expected to do everything together. And my parents, you know, they’re a little bit older, but they didn’t really have their own hobbies, they didn’t really have their own things. So it’s either in the home together or in church together. But there they didn’t have their own lives. And for a long time, when I first first started with Santa Clara, when we started dating, the great thing was that from the outset, we did our own thing. So it was really, really important. We had our time together, but it was also very clear. No, I’m gonna go and do my thing. You’re gonna go into yours. And that, for us, made us stronger. And we’ve seen an awful lot of people that have done the opposite. Oh, I met my wife. That’s it. I stopped doing all the things I used to do. Oh, I used to play golf. Oh, I used to ride my bike. Oh, I used to do such and such. Well, why did you stop? And people will? There’s very rarely an answer for that. It’s, as you say, it’s an expectation. It’s an unwritten rule that wow, that’s what you’re expected to do not realize and that actually, it’s probably causing more damage than than good. Oh, absolutely.
Tim Matthews 9:22
I mean, the resentment builds. The unconscious conditioning that occurs by making it a mark and I hands with the last episode recorded. A shows the importance of keeping friendships, male friends, as you get older. And one of the pitfalls of not doing that was the idea that you then make your wife, your best friend, which you know, done in a healthy way is a very powerful thing to do in a relationship. But don’t unconsciously in an unhealthy way place an incredible burden on her to provide you with needs that you are not meeting for yourself. Yeah. And when those needs are met, it’s very easy for men to fall into the trap of then resenting their wives or even becoming needy. And asking for things, asking him to spend time together asking for sex, asking for whatever it may be. And that wasn’t the guy that the wife fell in love with in the beginning.
Stu Gordon 10:24
Yeah, they started, I was confusing the wife with their mom. For 100% 100%, one
Tim Matthews 10:29
of the most popular episodes we’ve done is, I am a second-year Mother, are you making your lover your mother? Yeah. And they do.
Stu Gordon 10:36
And it’s not easy. Like Claire is my best friend. Like she is my best friend, we split we love we genuinely love spending time with each other. Which is great, because that’s not always the case with a lot of marriages. And we do our own thing, I have my own friends, I come here and spend some time before the team retreat and the leadership days to spend time with other friends, I go to football games, and I do my own thing as well. It’s, it doesn’t mean it’s the wrong thing to do. It doesn’t mean it’s easy. And obviously, we talk about shit tests and the fact that sometimes you might be challenged around it. But it’s important to do it. And for a man to do it as well to be very clear about what starts with it starts with good discussion and communication, funnily enough, but for us, it’s very, very clear this the time we spend together. And these are things I need to go and do for myself. And that makes us more connected, it makes us appreciate the time together and adds quality to the time we have together, away for 10 days at the moment, so long as I’m never going to be away. And it just means that you appreciate a little bit more together all the time, it builds resentment, it because you lose sight of what you got together for in the first place, you start dating your wife, big
Tim Matthews 11:42
time. And you know one thing that you know, our listeners are very good at is giving, giving, giving, giving, giving. Right. Within that, you know, there are some pitfalls that do fall in love unconscious covert contracts, because they give and give and give expecting something in return without ever communicating it. But they expect something in return. Because you can only give so much without getting something in return, you know, inevitably the well is gonna dry. Right.
Stu Gordon 12:10
So covert contracts for me were almost a new expression a couple of years ago. And I didn’t realize that you don’t, I didn’t realize I was doing it. Not as much now. But certainly in the back in the days when when I was really I didn’t kind of know who I was or what I was. And that’s what I did, I would I would give and give and give. And I sort of almost said that I love giving to people and doing things for people. But I didn’t realize why I was doing that. Hey guys, I
Doug Holt 12:38
wanted to interrupt this episode, because it’s dawned on me that many of you guys aren’t aware that we actually have a book on how to save your marriage without talking about it. Now 1000s of men have read it, they’ve reviewed it. And I want to give you the opportunity to do the same. If you’re interested in grabbing it. It’s a short read. But it’s helped a lot of men just like you. And maybe you’re not interested in The Activation Method yet. But this is a small entry point that can really turn things around for you go over an Amazon we have it priced as cheap as Amazon will let us and that way you have a resource that you can use right now to start getting some results in your marriage. Now let’s get back to the episode. I
Stu Gordon 13:14
do it. And I do enjoy it. It’s one of our love languages. But the main reason I was doing was so that they liked me. And I can see the same patterns in my daughter now. She’s trying to figure herself out. And she’s doing things with people in the hope that they will like her and that they’ll become friends with her. And yeah, you’re unconsciously doing something trying to get an outcome without even realizing it and without communicating it as well. So there’s
Tim Matthews 13:37
a question, what has been the ripple effect within your family? Have you let go of guilt and prioritized doing things for yourself?
Stu Gordon 13:47
Well, the easiest one is, I think my marriage is one of the strongest that that’s out there. I’ve seen as I say lots of guys come into the movement. And the most common thing is they’ve stopped doing what they used to do. They stopped dating the wife, they stopped prioritizing, or they spent all their time together. And they’re wondering where the polarity is not there. So my marriage is in the best place it’s ever been. And it’s I’m very lucky that it’s probably an enviable one to have. But then you’re also showing things for you for your kids. So for me like Ava and Isla, they know that he goes and does his thing. He goes and does it, he comes back. There’s usually a president involved, so they quite enjoy it. But they know that we do see what healthy boundaries and a healthy relationship look like, in my opinion. So the hope for me is that as Ava’s trying to figure out, she goes to high school now and she tries to figure out friendships, these lessons will stick. But then when they’re looking for their partners, whoever that may be, they go in with an expectation of looking at work for mom and dad. Look at what they’ve modeled for us. Look how healthy things are between them. And then when we hunt, when conflict does come up, look at how well they handle it. It’s dealt with really quickly and usually by going off and doing our own doing our own thing. Taking that time and not feeling guilty about it rather than having to fix it now, I’m just gonna go and take some time for myself because it’s the right thing to do, and come back and become and communicate it. So I’m hoping it’s just, as you know, with me, it’s trying to change some generational patterns. So for me, that’s the hope is that my kids grow up knowing what a healthy relationship looks like, they don’t feel guilty about having time for themselves and having their own lives. Or
Tim Matthews 15:23
points. You know, I think there are some really powerful reframes here, when we think about guilt, and doing things for yourself, whatever it may be, whatever you choose to do for yourself is self-care. Right. And, you know, there’s been a lot of evidence in the world of the past few years, about the lack of self-care, and the impact that’s having on people in the workplace, be it in society, wherever it may be, right? And I think there are a few reframes as well we can, we can offer the guys because the guys often think, Okay, well, I’m gonna be selfless. And I’m not going to do something for myself, because I’m going to invest in the family. Well, in actual fact, choosing to avoid overcoming the guilt is actually one of the most selfish things you can do. Because all you’re doing in that process is robbing the people around you of getting the best of you. Because there’s no possible way they can get the best of you, if you’re not doing something for yourself, instead of getting the best of you, they get the rest of you and there’s no way you can pair in the best you can possibly parent lead, the best you can possibly lead, hold space, the best you could hold space for your wife, like it’s absolutely crucial for the people around you, to get the best of you. And I’m not talking about some perfect scenario here, where you always bring 100% of your best self. It could even be like a decompression. End of the day, you just take a 10-minute walk for yourself. And within that, you may go to your favorite place in email, watch the sunset, and you may just enjoy the sounds of the birds and the stillness saw. You may even go on a cold plunge, whatever it may be, I think just that that action of pushing away the guilt. Overcoming the stories and doing something for yourself signals, the feedback loop that gives yourself is incredibly important. Because subconsciously, what that does is it signals to yourself that I matter to me, and the self-esteem and the self-confidence that comes from that. Because the reality is only you know, right? Yeah, only you know, when you do other things,
Stu Gordon 17:42
it’s usually quiet, do that as well that you’re trying and that you’re 100% 100%. For me, there’s there’s two things on this one, there’s the long term. So you talked about guilt and passing that on. And that’s what I was doing for many years before I did the work that I’m still doing on myself. And that builds awareness for the long term you’re trying to build awareness of, for me of when these things come up, because they’re still gonna come up for you, these things are still going to happen if it’s inbuilt into you. And the way that shows up for me in the short term typically is if I don’t do something with myself if I’ve missed the gym for two or three days, I’ve not been out in the morning. Exactly, what I’ll do is I will show up and pass on that guilt. So the way I will handle conflict with Claire or with my kids is I will make them feel guilty for what’s happened. Rather than be able to take a step back and be calm and just take it for what it is start making up stories. And I get dragged into the old version of myself, rather than fail to step back and go, it has nothing to do with me. They just need me to be calm, they just need to show up and deal with it instead of making it worse. That’s the big difference for me. If guilt kicks into it, I make the situation worse, not better. So that comes with being selfless to an extent. And we’re not saying take five hours a day for yourself. But doing whatever it takes so that you drop into that space, rather than being triggered and adding to the problems. Wondering
Tim Matthews 19:02
the three practical strategies that we landed on, or looking at this first one are reframing, reframing self care, which is kind of what we’re talking about, right? The importance of self-care actually being an investment, an investment that you can get a return on investment from, right, whether it’s a return on investment with your wife and kids, whether it’s with the staff, whatever it’s got to be the second one was around the need to set boundaries and communicated needs. You know, some of the guys listening to this may have questions about that, because again, depending on the position, your relationships, and we talk a lot about the emotional bank account. If that bank account is overdrawn, then it’s not a great place to try and set a boundary you don’t really have enough of a balance to be able to say hey, this is what I need. This is why it’s important for me and what it provides me with and I’m going to be doing this thing, how can we make that work? So if you are in that position, guys, and you know, you just need to make sure you make some healthy deposits that show into that bank account, you know, The Hidden Motives Technique. But at the same time, as I’m saying this, I’ve got a little bit of a battle going on within me, because I see the benefit of the guys’ experience from doing the Alpha Rise and Shine, which is an example of everything we’re talking about. Right. And it’s it’s a requirement. And for, for the men who go through the program to get put in place. And we see tremendous results really quickly. Yeah, even the men that do that. So there can be balances within that I think they can be non-negotiables, authorizing the change, you could get up earlier before the rest of the house gets up, get out, be back. And there might be other things you might need to do for yourself throughout the week, like you go, you go play golf, don’t you that would require more of the boundaries piece. So that’s where you got to make sure there are deposits nice and healthy in the account. Because you know, if you’re going to play golf on a Sunday, there’s
Stu Gordon 21:04
again, there’s a difference with between selflessness and selfishness. And some of the guys, if you’ve been selfish, if you’ve done ticket a ton of time if you have never shown up, it’s probably not the right time to say I need some more. Maybe we need to make some adjustments. What works for me personally very well as I have a few different versions now. So I’ve been playing around with it. So it doesn’t have to be prescribed. So I have things that work for me, particularly in the morning in the evening. And I want to have time for myself. But I can play around with that to fit in with what’s happening at home as well. So would I leave the house would I go and do something selfishly if all hell was breaking loose, I think social costs wouldn’t. So you’ve got to you know, you can’t just say I’m doing it regardless because it’s what I need. At the same time, you’ve got to learn that the example given by after work, I might have worked or eight, nine o’clock now. And what I really want to do is just go and chill out, well, the best thing to do is still go out there and have that bit of time to myself, so they get the best version of me. So for me, that’s what it’s all about the work to make sure the best version of me shows up.
Tim Matthews 22:05
Yeah, I agree. It’s a really good book. It’s not directly related to guilt. But the family of Brandon, The Six Pillars of Self-esteem, again, brilliant book best a lot in the science of self-esteem. And one of the things that I love to say is, you know, the fastest way to build confidence is to make and keep promises to yourself. Equally, the fastest way to lose confidence is to make and break promises to yourself. And the truth with that is that you’re the only one who knows whether or not you’re making or breaking promises to yourself, I like these now. So if you allow Gil to creep in, and you continually deny doing something for yourself, even though you know the truth because you know deep down that you want to do something for yourself. And you probably say Alright, well, I’ll do this for myself this week. And when you don’t because of the guilt, that has a huge impact on your self-image and your self-esteem, you lose trust in yourself, you feel bad to your point, and it’s very easy to then take out on the people you love to be at home be at work. And everything just becomes a lot harder.
Stu Gordon 23:15
Yeah, it starts the cycle. So I’ve got a personal trainer, she would laugh at this as well, because she’s I’m all or nothing and a lot of guys are similar. You get onto that you get into a cycle, it’s a good one. And it just builds and builds and things become easy. And you get into the flow. And everything’s everything just seems easy. And that usually starts with filling promises to yourself. And for me communicating it really clearly it’s a cloud, this is why I’m doing it and why so she’s on board, she becomes a fan. The opposite of that is what you’ve just described, you don’t do the things that you should be doing. Or you don’t communicate what you’re doing. And then you feel guilty for not doing it. And round and round you go all of a sudden you routines slip because you’re trying to catch up and you’re out of flow. And then you start reacting to people. So it’s it’s it’s not something that can be done overnight. It’s 1% better every day. But equally, the opposite it can go 1% The wrong way. So it’s again, it’s the awareness and catching it and not letting it go too far.
Tim Matthews 24:10
Again, when I was researching this, I was reading up on on it and I came across a really cool metaphor. And obviously we’ve spoke to the men about the idea that you know, put on the oxygen mask and all that stuff, but I really like this one. It says think of self care like sharpening an axe. By taking time to sharpen the blood you can work more effectively and efficiently, rather than struggling with adulto. I love that. I love that. It’s a great way of putting it it really is like sharpening the axe every time you sharpen it, it means ends that effectiveness. Yeah. And you’re able to just continue to get more out with less effort. Yeah, definitely.
Stu Gordon 24:49
And that’s I think that’s the challenge when we have guys coming to The Activation Method. Typically the house is on fire. There’s a big problem to solve. And a lot of them are looking for the silver bullet. They will take Got great candidates, I’ve seen that this works for hundreds of guys 1000s of guys, I want to do it. And they’re expected results immediately. And that can be the challenges that they’re trying to fix or solve problems and expecting to happen in a few weeks. And that’s just not going to happen. The bank balance is empty. They haven’t sharpen the axe yet they haven’t worked out what to do. So it’s got to be a, it’s got to be a commitment to a lifelong process, we know we get some very quick results, because for a lot of these guys, he’s just not showing up at all. So doing something different is huge. But yeah, it’s it’s, it’s a case of finding what works for you sharpening that axe and it becomes easier and easier over time we’re
Tim Matthews 25:35
upon. So let’s leave the listeners with three action steps.
Stu Gordon 25:40
For me, personally, based on the guys we’ve seen, number one is have gained some awareness about where you’re at. Is this an issue for you? Have you actually dug into why that might be and start to get a bit of awareness around it? I think the second thing is, if you’re not doing something for yourself, try and figure out something that’s going to work for you. Obviously, we’ve got techniques that work around Alpha Rise and Shine, Alpha Decompression, but figure out something that might work for you to give something back. What about the third one that you give us?
Tim Matthews 26:11
I think practicing self compassion is really important. I think the inner talk for a lot of men is very negative, beats themselves up. And I think that they’ve used that to drive themselves in business driven ban, yeah, they’ve been pushed by pen. And they have it’s produced results in their life, right. And that’s rare, because it will beat some people down. But for our guys, it tends to spur them on lift them up. However, every strength can become a weakness. And if you don’t change that in a dialog, and in doing so give yourself some self compassion. And remind yourself that it’s okay to take time for yourself, and that it isn’t selfish, and that you deserve it. And that the people around you are better for it.
Stu Gordon 27:07
And your wife probably wants you to and they all want you to write.
Tim Matthews 27:13
But without really without changing that in a dialogue is going to be very hard to break the cycle. But in changing it, that’s where you are a little bit more compassionate with yourself a little bit more understanding a little bit easier. And all of that is aware to give yourself a bit of self love. And again, I keep going back to that internal dialogue because I don’t think that guys get this enough. When you talk to yourself in a healthy way, like we’ve just described that in internal feedback loop is I matter to me, once you actually understand the richness of that and the value of that and how that produces results in your life.
Stu Gordon 27:58
It’s invaluable. Yeah, everything becomes lighter. Very, very Oh,
Tim Matthews 28:01
for sure. So guys, you heard it from the man himself, Mr. Xu eg if you’re experiencing any guilt, around doing things for yourself, lean into it. The people you love at home at work. They want to get the best of you, not the rest of you. And that starts with you deciding and choosing to take some action. So as Dougie fresh likes to say, a moment of insight, take massive action. We’ll see you next time on a TPM show.
