Episode #1003
Feel stuck in your relationship and not sure whether to work on it or walk away? In this episode, Doug Holt and Coach Mark Smith break down the tough questions men face when their marriage or partnership feels off. No fluff—just real talk about what it means to lead in your relationship, how to stop avoiding the hard conversations, and a simple framework to help you decide if it’s time to recommit or move on.
If you’ve been feeling disconnected, unheard, or unsure whether there’s still love left, this one’s for you. The guys talk about how to be the best version of yourself for 30 days, what to actually say when you’re ready to speak up, and what to look for to know if your partner’s still in the fight with you.
Whether you’re on the fence or already drifting apart, this episode will help you see the path forward—with clarity and courage.
👉 Not sure if your relationship is worth saving?
Take 2 minutes to get clarity. Use the free “Should I Stay or Should I Go?” assessment and see where you really stand. No sugarcoating—just a clear picture of what’s next.
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Transcription
Mark 0:00
The conversation is really important, and that willingness to be open, demonstrate commitment, and say, I’m really all in. I’m just not happy. I’m not enjoying these arguments or disconnects we have, and I’d really love us to resolve this. I’ve got a few ideas. Are you willing to work on it with me? Just an invitation. A lot of guys don’t use the permission aspect enough.
Doug Holt 0:35
Hey guys, welcome back to another episode of the TPM show, and once again, we are joined by the great coach, Mark Smith. Mark, thanks for being here.
Mark 0:46
Doug, being here is an opportunity I would not give up.
Doug Holt 0:50
I love it, man. I love having you here. I really enjoyed the last episode we did. So guys, if you didn’t listen to that one, after this one, go back and check it out. I thought it was fun and informative. It was fun for me anyway. This topic is, Should I Stay or Should I Go? You’re not gonna sing.
Mark 1:10
No, no, I’m not gonna sing.
Doug Holt 1:13
What happens off camera stays off camera.
Mark 1:16
Off camera is Vegas.
Doug Holt 1:18
We had a good time with that. The topic here, Mark we were talking to a gentleman today, and he had a lot of questions like, Doug, I just don’t know. I don’t know if I should stay or if I should go. I love my partner, but I’m not sure if I’m in love with my partner. Here’s the scenario he gave me: he’s in this quandary, trying to figure it out. There’s almost no intimacy in the relationship. They’re trying, but it’s not going nearly as fast as he’d like. His partner complains a lot about his business, the choices he makes. He travels for work, and she complains about him being gone. She doesn’t work, so no kids in the mix. But it’s a constant struggle. He’s now reflecting: how much longer am I willing to put up with this? I asked him if he was settling, and he said, I am. I asked, if this pans out one or two years from now, are you going to be happy and fulfilled? And the answer was no.
Mark 2:36
So interesting, isn’t it? Because that question, Should I Stay or Should I Go I wonder, what would her answer be if we reversed it? Hearing one side doesn’t give the full picture. If it’s about him, my thought is, well, she’s still there. She’s saying things like, “You travel too much,” which I translate as, “I want to see more of you. I want more of you emotionally and energetically in the relationship. I want connection.” A lot of guys don’t translate that. They don’t put it through Lady Speak; they put it through Business Speak or Man Speak and go, Oh, she’s just complaining, she’s unhappy, and I have to fix it.
Doug Holt 3:35
Normally I’d say that, but I know a little more about this context. So I’m going to play devil’s advocate here. I think this guy travels not too much. I asked him, are you planning on having kids? He said yes. Okay, what do you think that’s going to look like when you have children? And when you are home, are you spending quality time together? The answer was no, not really. She doesn’t seem to be available. She’s doing her own thing, which made me think is “You’re traveling too much” a byproduct of her wanting him more, or jealousy that he’s out doing stuff, living into his greatness while she’s not pursuing anything currently?
Mark 4:32
You said she’s not working, right? I can only imagine that for her, it looks like he’s got a lot going on and she doesn’t have much to keep her inspired and motivated.
Doug Holt 4:47
Which leads me to think okay, intimacy is not there. So is this a connection issue, or is it a power issue? “How do I keep him around? How do I have some power in this relationship? Is control the way?” Of course, you and I are just guessing. We don’t know her story. But this is the quandary a lot of guys get into. Generalized, many men say, hey, we don’t have intimacy, or not as much as I’d like. And by intimacy, I don’t just mean sex. Guys want more connected sex. They want their wives to want them in the bedroom, like they did when they first started dating. So that’s not there. Maybe she’s not appreciating him. His story is that he’s making sacrifices to grow the business, bring in money, she’s spending it, but not appreciating him for his hard work.
Mark 5:57
There’s a lot in what you just said. From her perspective, if she’s not being fulfilled, not working, and he’s traveling how much care and attention is he paying to her needs? What would help her feel connected and inspired? It’s like a kid doing math all day long they’ll get bored.
Also, applying “Should I Stay or Should I Go?” without truly understanding the other person’s perspective doesn’t give you a correct equation. You only have one side.
In my experience, I’ve seen guys who’ve said, “I’ve been working at this, I’ve been diligent, I’ve shown up, I’ve been there for the kids, and you’re giving me nothing in return.” Many men fear confronting that, afraid she’ll say, “I don’t fancy you anymore, I’m not into you, I don’t love you.”
But I’ve seen men continue to show up continue to lead, laugh, love life, and be open and eventually she’s come around. One took four months. Another took 20 months. In those cases, “Should I Stay or Should I Go?” meant popping the balloon to make a decision do I continue investing in this relationship or not?
Doug Holt 8:01
No, I’ve seen it both ways a lot as well. The way I approach it from a coaching methodology, when I’m working with a one-year client, it gives me more runway to work with that person. Oftentimes they renew for two or three years, because it works.
So I was with somebody recently, and the first question I always start with is: Do you love her? Yes or no. If the answer is yes, great. Second question: Are you in love with her? If the answer is yes, and there’s no abuse, then the answer is stay and work on it.
If it’s no to either of those, then I start asking more questions. If it’s no to “Do I love her?” then there’s nothing here. Let’s talk about your business, because this ship has sailed.
But if it’s “I love her, but I’m not sure if I’m in love with her” that’s very common. And oftentimes, Mark, the guys are unsure because it’s been such a grind for both of them. They’ve stopped dating, stopped seeing each other for who they are, and there’s so much mud on the glass.
The next follow-up I ask is: Have you talked to her about the situation? Funny enough and some guys listening will relate many men are so scared of having that conversation that they’ll have affairs instead. It’s a self-fulfilling prophecy that feels safer than facing rejection. Or they’ll file for divorce rather than have the conversation about their needs not being met. Crazy, right? Psychologically it makes sense, but rationally it doesn’t.
So with the concept of “Should I Stay or Should I Go?” the question is: is she also doing the work? After you’ve had that conversation “Hey, this isn’t working for me” then you’ll know.
The way I’d do it, and I’ve done this with Erin early on, is: “Hey, this isn’t working for me. I love you, but I also love me. I want us to work, but right now I don’t feel like my needs are being met, and I’m guessing you probably feel the same. I’d like to see if there’s a way we can work this out. Is that something you’re interested in?”
If she says no, then you have your answer. Because if she’s not willing to do the work, meet you halfway, or listen to the fact that your needs aren’t being met, there’s little hope of salvaging it.
Mark 10:52
I think that’s very smart. I wouldn’t change anything about that approach. It’s compassionate, considerate, and it’s an inquiry, not a force. It’s a flowing conversation.
What do you think it is that prevents guys from asking for their needs to be met?
Doug Holt 11:16
Fear of rejection. It’s an identity play. We’ll do anything, even die, to protect our identity. It’s crazy.
Guys are scared because if she rejects me, what does that mean about me? But if I get caught cheating, or if I cause the breakup, then it’s outside my control it’s not my fault. Therefore she didn’t reject me. Crazy.
Doug Holt 11:50
It is crazy. And it goes back to what we said in the last episode: do the hard thing. Face it. Take that first step.
Nine times out of ten, when I’ve coached guys through having that conversation with their wife about needs not being met, and they’re open to the possibility that she may not be, they end up having amazing conversations. Most of the time, it even ends with intimacy.
Mark 12:18
Absolutely. I had two guys earlier today give feedback after “eating the frog” doing the hard thing. They had the conversation and said, “I love you, I love us, and I love our life together. There are some things for me that can go a lot better, and I want us both to be 100% in the relationship.”
Relationships are about commitment. They’re not there to make you happy; they’re there to make you grow. If you’re committed to the relationship, you’re committed to growth. And if you’re committed to growth, you should be willing to ask and answer difficult questions.
That’s where the rub is. Movies say men have commitment issues, but it’s not about commitment it’s about the willingness to face difficult things.
I can remember times when it was hard for me to ask for simple things. I thought, that’s stupid, so I started asking my wife to bring me tea. That was easy. It got better and better. I now call it “moving her feet.”
This comes from horse training: the alpha horse moves toward another, and without touching, the other horse steps off. I translate that with men as: ask her to come toward you, ask her to bring you something.
That shows you her willingness. And once you see her willingness, maybe you can ask for your needs to be met. Maybe you can ask her to do some work on herself.
That’s also what you mentioned earlier an indicator of “Should I Stay or Should I Go?” Is she willing to work on herself? Even if it’s just going to the gym, reading a book, or even buying a book she hasn’t read yet. One guy told me that. I said, pick it up and read it to her in bed. Take some leadership.
She might be stuck. Show empathy or compassion for that. She may have made a step and find it difficult to take the next one.
Doug Holt 14:59
You know what’s coming up for me Aaron, my wife, made a comment at the Sisters Oregon rodeo. I did some research after. I looked up the top 10 bestselling fiction books for women. Most were romance novels really erotic novels.
If women are romanticizing about these stories, that means they’re fantasizing about them. Looking at the top 10, every one of them had a strong male leader who took action, even when the female character resisted. He was still respectful, but he led her, and eventually she became submissive to his masculine ways. That’s the underlying plot.
So bring it back to “Should I Stay or Should I Go?” Are you being that masculine leader? How many times do we hear a guy say, “I gotta go ask my wife”? Sometimes you should, if you have agreements. But other times you need to just take charge.
Read the book to her. “Hey babe, I saw you bought this book. Let’s read it together.” Then open it and start reading. Don’t say, “Have you thought about reading it?” That’s not sexy.
The archetype women fantasize about that man exists inside all of us. But we’ve become “nice guys,” thinking the best thing is to meet all our wife’s wants and hopes. There’s not one bestseller with that guy in it.
And I was partially that guy for a while.
Mark 17:28
All of us not so nice anymore.
Doug Holt 17:31
A lot more fun, though. Exactly. You’re a great guy.
Mark 17:34
It’s so interesting, that female psyche thing. Take 50 Shades. Everybody says it wasn’t a particularly well-written book. My wife’s got all three. And the character the avatar of that man there’s a piece you didn’t mention. In that character, he’s very attentive to her. He treats her like a goddess, like a queen bee. He’s all in on her.
For the “Should I Stay or Should I Go?” scenario, potentially she’s had 10 years of being left out in the cold, not having her needs met. And guys wonder why their wives go drink alcohol or find that guy somewhere else.
I’ve had men say, “What the hell is she doing with him? He’s bald, he’s 60, he’s got a beer belly. What’s she thinking?” I ran one of those scenarios by my wife, and she said, “She feels his power.” That’s what it is.
Doug Holt 18:42
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I’ll buy you a copy of the book I wrote, A Man’s Guide on How to Save Your Marriage Without Talking About It. In here, I’ve distilled over eight years of TPM programs to help men save their marriages without talking about it.
There’s no fluff, no BS. It’s an action plan you can start using today to bring love and respect back into your family. You deserve it. All I ask is you pay shipping. I’ll buy the book for you so you can take massive action today. Click the link or find it in the bio to get your copy now.
Mark 19:34
100%. We think working out in the gym is what it’s about. No it’s about your heart, your energy, the sense she gets when she’s with you, that you’re attentive and paying her homage. That you’re really all in on her so you can take her with you.
Doug Holt 19:55
I love that. That’s so true. And you know that other guy’s paying attention to her.
This reminds me of what I wrote in the book A Man’s Guide on How to Save Your Marriage Without Talking About It. When Erin and I separated, I was leaning toward leaving.
I was running on the beach in San Diego, water splashing, sun shining, and a question came to me: Have I been the best husband I could be for just 30 days? The answer was no.
So I made a deal: If I could be the perfect husband my version for 30 days, and Erin didn’t meet me or at least take a step forward, I’d leave. That became the catalyst for rekindling our marriage.
When I changed, guess what? Erin changed. When I did the work, she did too. That’s when I realized I needed to lead the marriage just like I lead in business or on the football pitch. I’d never take the back seat there, so why was I doing it at home?
Because I thought being the nice husband biting my tongue, doing her bidding was the right move. But it was the most unsexy thing I could’ve done.
Mark 21:47
Exactly. Women want to be attended to, but they don’t want to be relied on to lead. They don’t want to be the answer.
It’s shown everywhere in movies, media, especially those written and directed by women. There’s a cheat sheet for men there, but we don’t pay attention.
I had a conversation with my wife today. She said, “I’ve told you that three times, but you refused to listen. Eventually I stopped saying it.” I admitted I was distracted, had work on my mind, and wasn’t paying attention. I apologized, and she moved past it.
So let’s circle back to Should I Stay or Should I Go? We’ve covered a lot. I’d love to give guys not a formula, but a pathway. If you’re at that point, where do you start first?
Doug Holt 23:18
Let’s go back and forth. I already said the first three questions I always ask:
- Do you love her? Yes or no. If no, it’s time to go.
- Are you in love with her? If yes, keep moving down the hierarchy.
- Have you had a conversation with her about this?
Mark 23:48
The other piece is: have you seen anything from her that shows she’s willing to do some work, to be in the relationship?
Some basics: she hasn’t left. If she’s angry, upset, challenging you, she’s in. If she’s apathetic, she’s out. A lot of guys misread that. They think, “She’s angry, she’s rejecting me.”
But anger means she’s engaged. That energy can be turned into passion. Energy can’t be destroyed, only transmuted.
The conversation is key. That willingness to be open, to demonstrate commitment, and to say: I’m all in, but I’m not happy. I don’t enjoy these arguments or disconnects. I’d love to resolve this. I have a few ideas. Are you willing to work on it with me?
Just an invitation. Guys don’t use that permission aspect enough.
Doug Holt 25:06
A lot of guys are scared to ask, “Are you unhappy?” Odds are, gentlemen, if you’re unhappy, your wife is too. And she’s probably been unhappy longer. We have more resilience somehow.
Mark 25:24
We put it in a box. Unhappiness in the relationship box, then go find happiness in business.
Something I tell guys: ask her what she doesn’t like about you. What makes her respect you less? Ask. It’s hard, because you’ll hear things you don’t want to hear.
I’ve even played this game in the car with my wife. It was her idea. We also balanced it with, “What do you love about me?” That willingness to hear uncomfortable truths is huge.
Women aren’t afraid of emotionally challenging scenarios. They’ll dive in and say, “You don’t pay attention. This isn’t working.” Men freeze deer in the headlights.
It’s tied to identity: “If I’m criticized, I’m not the protector/provider, so my self-esteem drops.” But if we can hear it and use it to strengthen us, that becomes a superpower.
Doug Holt 27:13
It comes down to grounded masculinity being the wolf: wise, open, loving, and fierce. I love that, man. If I did that with my wife, that’d be a long conversation.
Mark 27:24
The beauty is you’d probably only have to have it once or twice, because then she’s said it. And that’s a beautiful thing. It’s like sales: once you get all the objections out of the way, there’s a sale. That’s when you can transmute that feisty energy into passion.
Doug Holt 27:39
I’ve actually had this conversation with Aaron before. We talk about it. And here’s something important for guys to understand you don’t have to accept all those things.
There are things about my wife where she’ll say, “I think you should change this.” And I’ll say, “Well, I don’t.” And guess who’s living my life?
Mark 27:56
Exactly.
Doug Holt 27:58
That’s me. Who’s the crazy person? You knew that coming into this relationship.
Mark 28:02
That’s what I’ve said to Bunny: I haven’t changed. I’ve been this delinquent the whole time.
Doug Holt 28:07
You’re the crazy one, because you accepted it. I think that’s critically important.
The next step in this rubric or flow chart for men is to ask yourself: over the last four weeks, have you been the ideal version of yourself for your partner?
By “ideal,” I mean: showing up fully, not going into DEER mode (defend, excuse, explain, react), standing grounded, treating her with love and respect as if she were your best friend, your queen. Are you honoring her, asking questions, engaging, wanting to get into her world?
If these answers are “no,” then you’re getting a clearer picture. You can exit with a clean conscience because you’ve been the best version of yourself.
I had a client I worked with for two years. He was very honest, very open. After 90 days of showing up, he went to his wife and said, “Look, I’ve been the best version of myself. I’ve explained my needs, my wants, we’ve been working at this. I need you to show me you can do the work.”
She said, “Let me think about it,” and the next morning told him, “I think we need to get a divorce. I can’t be the woman you deserve. You’ve been the absolute dream of a man. You deserve better.”
That was radical honesty. They’re still together today, but she had to face her own work. He didn’t go back to the old him he maintained that new identity.
Mark 30:25
I mentioned earlier some men go through a four-month or even 20-month period where they’re patient while their wife isn’t visibly doing the work.
If she’s still emotional angry, demanding, making requests she’s still in. Even if it looks negative, there may be something deeper going on that she can’t yet express.
Many women don’t even know why they’re feeling what they’re feeling. It takes time to surface. Sometimes it’s tied to past abuse or trauma, which makes it hard to feel safe.
If he’s patient and keeps leveling up, often the breakthrough comes and the connection becomes better than ever. I had two men say this morning, “I didn’t know intimacy could be this good.”
And I want women to hear this: men want intimacy and connection. Yes, we enjoy sex, but what we’re really seeking is that deeper connection.
Doug Holt 32:37
All these guys could get laid if they wanted to. What they want is connection with their partner. They want her to want it too.
Men want to be seen, heard, and desired especially desired.
Mark 32:52
It’s desired, desired, desired.
Doug Holt 32:55
We’re simple creatures.
So here we are. Back to the framework:
- Do you love her? Yes/No
- Are you in love with her? Yes/No
- Have you had the conversation?
- Really listen.
Mark 33:13
And connect with her willingness. Is she still in? Is she doing the work?
Then ask her: What do you want? What do you not want? What am I doing that works? What am I doing that doesn’t? Let’s analyze what we’re really dealing with.
One more thing don’t just say, “I want this to work.” Say, “I want you. You’re the only woman I want. I want an incredible relationship with you, because you are the one I’ve chosen.” That’s an important connection.
Doug Holt 33:57
I love that. I tell my wife that often especially if I sense she might be feeling insecure.
Mark 34:06
You’re this good looking, Doug I don’t know how she deals with it.
Doug Holt 34:10
I’m not taking her to an optometrist!
So let’s review: you’ve given two more steps, so we’re at six. Number seven would be: Have you been the best version of yourself for 30 days?
These are simple things men can do. If you can do all of these in a 30-day window, then ask yourself: have you done the work?
Listening to this podcast puts you in the top 1%, but have you gone further? You can’t recognize your own blind spots that’s why they’re called blind spots. That’s where a coach steps in and says, “Buddy, I can see the corner you’re missing.”
Mark 34:50
And that’s why I frequently have a coach, because I cannot see my own blind spots. And my wife is a very good blind spot spotter and tells me my blind spots whether I want to hear them or not. There you go. Hey, we all need that around us, right?
Doug Holt 35:14
That’s all about being grounded, right? If you’re grounded, you can receive without judgment or reacting. Man, these are some great points, and we went on a lot of tangents as we like to do. That’s what conversations like these are about. It’s two men doing our best in our lives, but also to help other men that are out there.
I hope these guys got a lot I know these guys got a lot. There’s not an exact formulaic breakdown. There are emotions in this, guys, and feeling into it. But also, you’ve got to be doing the work yourselves. You can’t expect your wife to make all these changes unless you do them. In my case, I had to be the one at least externally, from a perception standpoint doing the work. And when I was adamant about it, my wife followed my lead. You know, and we have a beautiful relationship now, one I couldn’t even imagine possible.
Mark 36:08
Well done. I see that and experience that, and it’s phenomenal. The thing I recognize in you, that I recognize in all great relationships and specifically from a man’s side is that when you’re relating, you’re not relating from your head, you’re relating from your heart. You’re being in the relationship, not strategizing the relationship. And that’s what a lot of guys fail to recognize.
Doug Holt 36:35
Well, I’ll tell you what, man I didn’t know how to do it. I wasn’t on a two-year quest. I heard this from a lot of women: “Oh, you have such a big heart. I wish you were in your heart more.” That wasn’t me. Luckily, we have a methodology to help guys out with that now, but that was a two-year journey for me to even conceptualize what the heck all these women kept telling me. And it’s still a journey I’m on today.
Awesome, brother. Well, thank you, as always, for your wisdom, your passion, and all you do for the men in the movement and for men who aren’t in the movement, like the men listening to this. We’re on a mission to save the children by saving their fathers first, and making the world a better place.
Mark 37:13
Thank you for setting it up.
Doug Holt 37:17
Gentlemen, as I often say in the moment of insight, just take massive action.
If you’re sitting with one foot on the dock and one foot on the boat as the boat starts to sail off, you’ve got to make a decision: should I stay or should I go?
It really comes down to you. Have you done the work? Are you still in love with her? We gave you kind of a formula here again:
- Step one: Do you love her?
- Step two: Are you in love with her?
- Step three: Have you had the conversation?
- Step four: Are you getting into her world? Are you recognizing if she’s doing the work?
- Step five: Have you asked her where you’re not showing up and what her needs are?
- Step six: Have you been the best version of yourself for 30 days?
Now, the part of the story I didn’t tell earlier I tried to be the best version of myself for 30 days, and I failed. I went into DEER mode again. I just didn’t know this stuff like I do now, or like we teach at TPM. But when I failed, it was eye-opening for me. Like, whoa, if I can’t do this for 30 days holy crap. I’m disciplined and pretty good at most things when I set my mind to them. And if I can’t do this one thing for 30 days, how can I expect my wife to be like this?
It was eye-opening. That’s when I set my sights on doing the actual work, not just educational masturbation going from one podcast to another. Do the actual work. Apply it. If you’re open, get help. Get a coach. Get a group of men. Iron sharpens iron. Surround yourself with men who are bettering their families. You’ll get insights from other men, just like you and just like me, who are out doing the work.
We’re the rare ones, boys. And we’ve got to keep pushing forward. See you next time on The Powerful Man Show.
